Story link ‘Are opioid overdose victims getting rescue breathing they need?’ Patient a presumed OD, signs of OD can mimic any of the hundreds of causes breathing emergency. Rescue breaths ASAP your life depends on breaths. Watch stories video clip St. John Ambulance employee holding breathing barrier masks one in each hand.
911 dispatch following protocol from Director Manitoba and Ontario Poison Centre?? straight from the puzzle factory.
‘I don’t feel comfortable, there’s white stuff on her shirt:’ Carrier worried woman had overdosed on fentanyl
Caroline Barghout · CBC News May 25, 2017
Canada Post mail carrier Corey Gallagher, 30, found an unconscious woman in the lobby of a Manitoba Housing building on Tuesday morning. (Photo by Corey Gallagher Postal Worker)
A Winnipeg mail carrier wants to know why a 911 dispatcher repeatedly instructed him to give CPR to an unconscious woman, even after he told the dispatcher that he was concerned she had overdosed.
Corey Gallagher, 30, didn’t know the woman, but told the CBC he feared she may have been using fentanyl. He doesn’t recall if he used those specific words when he called 911, but remembers saying he was worried she had overdosed.
“I’m a pretty calm person. It’s just in that situation, I was getting anxiety, ’cause I didn’t want to touch her. I was getting nervous, and just that was a horrible feeling,” said Gallagher.
Gallagher, who has worked for Canada Post for nine years, was delivering mail in the south end of the city Tuesday morning when he came across a woman lying in the lobby of a Manitoba Housing building at Beliveau Road and Eric Street.
At first, he thought she was intoxicated and had passed out, but he soon realized it was something more serious.
“Usually you can startle them if you’re walking in,” said Gallagher. “So I went in, delivered the mail, kind of called to the lady. [She was] unresponsive, didn’t look like she was breathing or anything.”
He called 911 and said the dispatcher put him through to an emergency services worker, who stayed on the phone with him until an ambulance arrived.
“He was trying to give me instructions on what to do. I told him, ‘This person, I’m pretty sure, is overdosed,'” said Gallagher.
Watch Corey’s Video St. John Ambulance holding 2 breathing masks
Told to perform CPR
Gallagher said the emergency worker wanted him to perform CPR on the unconscious woman, but he didn’t touch her — especially after noticing white powder on her shirt.
Gallagher doesn’t know if the woman survived.
“[He] kept telling me, ‘I’m gonna need you to do this, you’re gonna have to do this, get close, I need you to do this, I need you to put your hand here, hand there,'” Gallagher said.
“I’m like, ‘I don’t feel comfortable … there’s white stuff on her shirt.'”
He said a short while later, a female resident entered the lobby and informed him the unconscious woman was a known drug addict, which added to Gallagher’s hesitation to make physical contact.
“It’s not that I’m a germaphobe or anything, it’s just with the fentanyl stuff, I hear so much about it,” Gallagher said.
“I follow the news, and you read about it, and it’s actually really scary. I think it was a few days ago I saw three cops OD’d on it, ’cause they reported to a crash or something, and hearing just stuff like that, it really sticks with you.”
A spokesperson for the City of Winnipeg wasn’t able to comment on this specific case but said: “911 forwards these types of calls to [Winnipeg Fire Paramedic Service]-specific 911 operators. All WFPS 911 operators hold a paramedic licence.”
According to the statement from the spokesperson, “911 call takers may ask the caller to assist the person requiring help until paramedics arrive.
“If the caller does not want to provide mouth-to-mouth, 911 call takers would ask the caller to continue to assist the person with CPR only. If the caller does not want to assist, 911 call takers would ask the caller to stay on-scene until the paramedics arrive.”
The Lifesaving Society Manitoba wouldn’t comment on the incident, but said it’s important Good Samaritans put their safety first.
“The first thing we teach to anyone who’s taking our first aid or lifesaving training is they have to ensure safety and that safety starts with themselves,” said public education co-ordinator Christopher Love.
“Safety for the rescuer, for a lay rescuer, is the No. 1 priority, and if you cannot ensure your safety then you should not be entering the scene.”
Love said every rescuer needs to evaluate for themselves if a situation is safe, and that no one else can do it for them.
“You need to see what you see and then make a decision based upon what you know,” Love said.
“Our advice is, our training is, if it appears to be dangerous for yourself you should be summoning extra assistance from the professional side of things, but we wouldn’t recommend putting yourself at risk because again, that creates a larger number of victims or patients that need to be treated in the long run.”
‘Should I have done it?’
Gallagher said that shortly after leaving the scene, he began to question his reluctance to perform CPR.
“I was kind of like … did I overreact … should I have done it?” he said.
“Maybe I was being too judgmental in thinking everybody is on fentanyl, and maybe I’m blowing this way out of proportion.”
He said after talking to loved ones and co-workers, he was reassured he did the right thing.
“Most people that I talked to, they said they would have just turned around and would’ve left and let someone else deal with it because they don’t want to be in that situation,” said Gallagher.
“It’s not the first time I’ve ever called 911, and most likely it won’t be my last. I hope it is, though.”
Gary Thompson @GaryCPR January 23, 2017 at 6:36 am
Proof of a dysfunctional society.
Am personally a fond believer in Bruce Alexander’s ‘Rat Park Experiment’ Addicted lab rats did not use drugs if stress was removed and were allowed to be creative. http://www.brucekalexander.com/articles-speeches/rat-park/148-addiction-the-view-from-rat-park
The following live human study is creating needless stress, therefore and increases in drug use and abuse. Ten’s of thousands laypersons taught all the signs of opioid OD, then trained to give chest compressions only!!
Dr. Aaron Orkin (Co-author 2015 AHA guidelines toxic ingestions) Leece P. et al ‘Development and implementation of an opioid overdose prevention and response program in Toronto, Ontario.’ CJPH 2013; 104(3)e200-4
My response above article https://jgarythompson.wordpress.com/2016/07/04/response-cjph-20131043e200-4/
Read email from Dr. Laurie Morrison co-author of above protocol found my moderated comments in Tim Noonan’s Blog ‘Proposed 2015 ACLS Chest compression only CPR vs conventional CPR Recommendation’ http://roguemedic.com/2015/02/proposed-2015-acls-chest-compression-only-cpr-vs-conventional-cpr-recommendation/
All mad as hatters, don’t suffer a coma you may get the treatment.
When the medical profession fails to follow the moral codes tis a sure sign the civilization is crumbling painfully.
Above comments are playing havoc with the Brothers and Sisters in the EMS field etc. Common quotes “Gary we are showing up to calls people damaged from chest compression’s they were never to receive on a regular basis” Say nothing living in fear, therefore not living.
Jan 22, 2017 ‘First responders call for national strategy to tackle PTSD crisis’ http://www.cp24.com/news/first-responders-call-for-national-strategy-to-tackle-ptsd-crisis-1.3251919
Quote Patrick McDonald ‘Paramedic Heretic’ page xvii “So what is the purpose of the Paramedic Heretic? Simple. It is time for somebody in my field of expertise to shout “gardyloo!” from the belfry. It’s time that you – health care’s ultimate consumer – gain the perspective of just how distorted our corner of medicine has become.”
(Healthcare protocols need to) Stop feeding our women and children to a monster as it eats our very souls. Monster is just a bully full of hot air who lives in fear of wisdom.
[…] Jan 23, 2017 read my moderated comments https://medicalmiscreants.com/2017/01/23/two-more-doctor-drug-pushers-locked-up-some-things-just-nev… […]
It is a mental illness called Anosognosia! It is a severe form of denial. Anosognosia is quite different than simple or temporary denial. It is not simply denial of a problem, but the genuine inability to recognize that the problem exists. Usually this is caused by brain damage!
January 19, 2017 Ontario Poison Centre [Chest compressions only] ‘Street Opioid Resuscitation Recommendations’ For the General Public
January 19, 2017 Ontario Poison Centre [Respiratory assist (rescue breaths)] ‘Street Opioid Resuscitation Recommendations’ For Pre-Hospital and Hospital Care
On Wednesday, April 10, 2013 3:58 PM, Margaret Thompson MD wrote:
I have no input into the Public Health training program.
The Canadian Association of Emergency Medicine has a position statement on Bystander CPR which suggests that compressions should be initiated by all and those trained should include mouth-to-mouth.
Margaret Thompson, MD, FRCP(C)
Medical Director, Ontario & Manitoba Poison Centres
All Canadians should respond and provide chest compressions (with or without mouth-to-mouth ventilation) whether they are trained or not, when an adult, child or infant suddenly collapses. Trained rescuers are encouraged to provide mouth-to-mouth after the initiation of chest compressions, especially in the case of children, infants, newborns.
From: James Thompson [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 12:47 PM
To: Margaret Thompson
Subject: A concerned student
I took Toronto Public Health’s naloxone training Sept. 2, 2011. When I asked during the 30 minute one on one training about rescue breathing was told “chest compression’s only is the new standard, for opiate O.D.”
TPH has trained over 530 people this in Toronto, and they are teaching this protocol all over the province. The only answer they give me is “it’s the new standard” I can’t find consensus anywhere.
TPH’s Power Point does not mention rescue breathing.https://www.cpso.on.ca/uploadedFiles/members/Meth-conf-POINT-PP.pdf cf. Slide #23
My article Feb 17, 2017 Rogue Medic “We keep making excuses for solutions that are neat, plausible, and wrong. Why don’t we start acting like responsible medical professionals and do what is best for our patients?”
Thank you to Gary Thompson of Agnotology for linking to this for me. https://aliascpr.wordpress.com/2017/01/24/cpr-k-p-mcdonald-ems/
Go read Response: ‘What happens when drugs become too powerful for overdose kits’ https://aliascpr.wordpress.com/2016/12/20/response-what-happens-when-drugs-become-too-powerful-for-overdose-kits/
Don’t suffer any respiratory emergency in Ontario, Canada Laypersons are eagerly following orders in the belief they are saving lives.
END OF PATRICK’S BLOG
Ten’s of thousands in Ontario, Canada taught all the signs of breathing emergency drug OD then trained to give chest compression’s only. Doctors not going to revive you after surgery with chest compression’s it’s respiration’s [rescue breaths laypersons] during and after surgery.
Empower laypersons what they think is a life saving technique they are eager to follow a clinicians instructions increasing morbidity and mortality any breathing emergency patient. Increases mental and physical illness drug use and abuse, dysfunctional society. Grade school science ‘How the Heart and Lungs work”
Jan 9, 2017 Toronto’s Mayor John Tory and Barbara Yaffe MD Medical Officer of Health Quoted drug OD issue “Ventilations (rescue breathing) most important” for any of the hundreds of causes breathing emergency. Chest compression’s still being taught!! Read comment box YouTube
Quotes Mayor above press conference at 37 minutes “When you have a CRISIS…one thing that often stands in the way…different protocols people have…that they have protocols that are well agreed upon…this person didn’t tell me that…we have a different system here…this is what causes people to lose their lives quite literally.”
City Hall May 17 Deputation I sat beside a cardiologist pre meeting told him about Public Health Ontario’s chest compression’s only, response “WOW nobody stops this?” READ COMMENT BOX https://youtu.be/5UWdcTfvbU8
Correct per all medicine anything less is gross negligence for any breathing emergency Dr. Nicholas Etches Medical Officer of Health for Calgary district
April 21, 2017 ‘Open Dialogue on Vulnerability Preventing and Responding to Drug OD.’ Crazy The more people trained this the more likely these trainers will be assaulted and/or murdered with chest compression’s.
50,000 Ontarians are poisoned each year 28,000 children http://www.sickkids.ca/AboutSickKids/Newsroom/Past-News/2007/50000-Ontarians-are-poisoned-each-year-according-to-the-Ontario-Poison-Centre.html
May I suggest you teach people to save their lives instead of killing them all with chest compressions.
15,000 out of hospital cardiac arrests per year Ontario https://www.ices.on.ca/Newsroom/News-Releases/2014/Survival-rates-improving-for-out-of-hospital-cardiac-arrest-patients
Ontario Pharmacist Association ‘How to kill your own Grandma & Mother her own child’ https://youtu.be/1a_SRu82jlw
https://youtu.be/aZ2SPcHUsvA Case report Jake @7:25 minutes. 4 breaths/min BVM = (rescue breathing ESSENTIAL) then Naloxone. Continue rescue breaths mandatory until next slide 14 breaths/min oximetry 97%
Lange ‘Poisoning and drug OD’ see page 1 ad fin item https://murdercube.com/files/Chemistry/Poisoning%20and%20Drug%20Overdose%20(4th%20Edition).pdf
Current edition http://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?bookid=391§ionid=42069814
FOLLOWING IMAGE JUST COMMON SENSE LACK OF OXYGEN IS WHAT CAUSED THE HEART TO STOP. IT’S NOT A CARDIAC ARREST FROM HEART DISEASE. TO PUT IT BLUNTLY ANY PATIENTS WHO’S HEART HAS STOPPED SECONDARY TO RESPIRATORY ARREST THEY ARE F**KED, PROGNOSIS VERY POOR
Roberts, James R. MD ‘Intranasal Naloxone for Prehospital Opioid Overdose’ Emergency Medicine News 2014; 36(7)4-6 cf reference ‘AHA Guidelines for CPR and Cardiovascular Care’ Next image from this reference
American Heart Association Guidelines Part 12.7: Toxic Ingestions http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/122/18_suppl_3/S829.full#sec-80 Quote “ventilation should be assisted by a bag mask [rescue breaths layperson italics mine] followed by administration of naloxone and placement of an advanced airway [continue breaths layperson italics mine] if there is no response to naloxone.”
“Practically every sign and symptom observed in drug overdose can be produced by natural disease, and many clinical presentations associated with natural disease can be mimicked by some poison.“
Response: Any of the hundreds of causes respiratory emergency mimic an overdose, rescue breaths ASAP. 2015 AHA guidelines refer you to the 2010 guidelines, suggest everyone follow what 2010 says.
My moderated comments 2015 AHA & ILCOR guidelines ‘Opioid Overdose Response Education’ with hyperlinks Ontario Public Health life threatening protocols in comment box https://youtu.be/PX0HQuaNS_I
INCHEM.org Quote “it is extremely important to give oxygen and to support ventilation immediately while waiting for naloxone to be available for injection.”
2015 European Resuscitation Council Guidelines for Resuscitation
Section 4. ‘Toxins’ p.165
Quotes “fewer adverse events when airway opening, oxygen administration and ventilation are carried out before giving naloxone” “Large opioid overdoses may require a total dose of up to 10 mg of naloxone” “In respiratory arrest there is good evidence for the use of naloxone, but not for any other adjuncts or changes in interventions.”
Goldfrank’s Toxicologic Emergencies p.566 etc.
Quotes “The consequential effects of acute opioid poisoning are CNS and respiratory depression. Although early support of ventilation and oxygenation is generally sufficient to prevent death, prolonged use of bag-valve-mask ventilation and endotracheal intubation may be avoided by cautious administration of an opioid antagonist.” “Differentiating acute opioid poisoning from other etiologies with similar clinical presentations may be challenging.” [previous means doctors have trouble diagnosing one respiratory emergency from another]
Annotated medical info ‘Naloxone’ and my moderated comments 14-15 Then follow Trackback for more of my moderated comments
April 26, 2016 234 Doctors, other health care professionals and myself signed a letter to Ontario’s Premier Kathleen Wynne and Minister of Health Dr. Eric Hoskins about Ontario’s life threatening intervention. See meaningless response from Premier
My letter ‘Flaws in Toronto’s Opioid Overdose Prevention Program’ EMN 2015; 37(12):31 With hyperlinks to Public Health Ontario’s training literature, and also the proper protocol.
Heart & Stroke Foundation Official site read the only moderated my comment AliasCPR
Dr. Gordon Ewy the world expert chest compression’s only phoned me “Gary don’t stop what you are doing”
Quote “Some doctors worry that bystanders can get confused and do only chest compression’s in drug-overdose and drowning cases [any asphyxia or poisoning etc] NOT TO BE GIVEN TO CHILDREN.”
Email from Dr. Gordon Ewy The day 2015 AHA & ILCOR guidelines published Quote Dr. Ewy “unbelievable”
Your pet eats a poison or drug Veterinarian will give respiratory assist and any antidote, not torture them with chest compression’s only as done in Ontario. Why would we allow this to our women and children?
It’s a mental illness called Anosognosia a severe form of denial. Anosognosia is quite different than simple or temporary denial. It is not simply denial of a problem, but the genuine inability to recognize that the problem exists. Usually this is caused by brain damage and/or FEAR!
Agnotology is the study of culturally induced ignorance or doubt, particularly the publication of inaccurate or misleading scientific [medical] data. Agnotology focuses on the deliberate fomenting of ignorance or doubt in society.
Not placing blame, change this protocol for the well being of all. Stop needless suffering Google @GaryCPR more info